Pro-Life America

Episode 2 | Why Abortion Should Never Be Sent Back To The States Episode Duration 21 min

Episode Summary

Should Roe vs. Wade be overturned?  Recent events prove that the left is worried about the future of Roe vs. Wade - and is coming up with their own "Plan B." We reveal how the way Roe vs. Wade is overturned can have repercussions for the unborn and why abortion is NOT a state issue. This episode will change how you see the future of the abortion battle in America!

Episode Notes

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Episode Transcription

Intro (with music):  "Sometimes controversial...always politically incorrect...and pro-life without exception, without compromise, and without apology. It's the Pro-Life America podcast with your hosts, Sarah Waites and the president of Life Dynamics, Mark Crutcher."

* theme music fades *

Sarah: Hey everybody! Welcome back to the Pro-Life America podcast. This is our second episode ever and I personally think that I am crushing it.

(Sound effect) "Wooohooo!"  

Mark: Oh yeah, me too... I think about that all the time, Sarah. (sarcasm)

Sarah: Do you know what "crushing" even means?

Mark: Not really. It means you think you're on the cutting-edge?

Sarah: Yeah, there you go! See, I'm educating you... urban dictionary here...

Mark: Right. Right. Well that's what I've been waiting for all my life, is you to come along and educate me.

(They  both laugh)

Sarah: On so many things!

Mark: Well anyway, I talked about in our show that we did where we just promo-ed...

Sarah: ...oh, our intro....

Mark: ...intro show... I said we were going to be exposing a lot of things that are going on in the pro-life movement. You know, we have worked ourselves into a position where we have a legitimate shot of winning - which we didn't have for the vast majority of the time that I've been at this.

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: But now we do. And now we have a bunch of pro-life leaders, and pro-life groups, and pro-life pundits who appear not to have a clue of what we're trying to accomplish here. They don't appear to have a clue about what it means to be pro-life, how to defend the pro-life position - and we talked about that. And we're going to be talking about that more in the future and proposing some solutions to it.

Sarah: I'm going to be educating you on pop-culture. You're going to be educating us on the pro-life issue. It's going to be great!

Mark: Right. Well I'm on the cutting-edge of pop-culture, as you know so...

Sarah: Oh, pfft... 

(They both laugh)

Mark: Yeah right.

Sarah: You have what, five CDs in your CD collection? (laughs) They're good CDs, don't get me wrong but...

Mark: ...yeah right...

Sarah: ...if I talked to you about songs that have come out, like by Adele... Do you know who Adele is?

Mark: No. I don't care who Adele is.

Sarah: See, you would like Adele.

Mark: humm... 

(Sarah laughs)

Mark: But anyway... We had someone we both know - we're not going to name names here.

Sarah: No.

Mark: We're not trying to turn this into a personal attack on somebody.

Sarah: This isn't that kind of podcast guys.

Mark: Right. There will be times when we do that because there are some things that are so important. But this person puts out a video, or an article, or...

Sarah: It was a video.

Mark: Anyway, she's talking about the need for us to go out and overturn Roe Vs. Wade, and send it back to the states, and then she says we can change hearts and minds in the states and end this deal. This is the most moronic position someone can take.

Sarah: Well, and this is one that comes up so often.

Mark: You hear it all the time.

Sarah: When the presidential elections are coming up, every four years this gets talked about. There was one time, and I can't remember who the candidate was but they were very much a libertarian but they were part of the Republican Party... Their position was they wanted to send Roe back to the states and I remember having this discussion with my mom - because she didn't understand. 

Mark: Well, first off, let's make some things understood here. There's a perception out there among a lot of people that - since Roe launched legal abortion - ending Roe will stop it.

(Buzzer Sound effect) 

Mark: That's nonsense. There's two ways that Roe can be ended. One is by a ruling by the Supreme Court that the unborn child is a person - and that would end the abortion battle.

Sarah: They would be given constitutional protection under the law - just like you and me. 

Mark: Right. And even Blackmun, one of the most evil people who ever lived on earth who is the Supreme Court justice who wrote the decision, said that if there's a personhood ruling on the unborn, the right to abortion collapses.

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: So, the Supreme Court could come out and say, "Roe was poorly decided because the unborn is a person and therefore they have a right to life guaranteed by the constitution" - which is correct. But almost every legal scholar that you can read, whether their pro-life or pro-choice or whatever they might be, says that won't be the way Roe is overturned. Roe will be overturned by the Supreme Court ruling that abortion is not in the constitution...

Sarah: ...because it's not!....

Mark:  ...the constitution is silent on abortion and therefore it's a states rights issue, and send it back to the states, and then each state gets to make its own abortion policies. The problem with that is, from a pro-life perspective... and the reason that what this person was suggesting- how  we ought to work for is  a state's rights ruling and then fight it in all the 50 states... Our position - your position and mine - is that the unborn child is a person.

Sarah: Because they are.

Mark: Because they are.

Sarah: It's not my position, that's science's position.

Mark: Well, you can't simultaneously argue that the unborn child is a person but their right to life should be negotiated within the state legislatures. 

Sarah: Well, you can't endorse the constitution or believe in the values of the constitution and say that these people over here are entitled to rights, oh but not these people over there, that's what slavery was based on.

Mark:  Right. If the unborn child is a person... Which we believe they are and if you're pro-life you believe that. If you don't believe that then you're not pro-life. If they're persons, their lives are protected by the United States Constitution - it is not a states rights issue. Their right to life cannot be negotiated within the states.

Sarah: Exactly. We don't allow any other major right to be dictated as a states rights issue. The freedom of speech is not freedom of speech in New York versus Texas versus Maine.

Mark:  You know, it was easy in 1973 to dismiss the argument that the unborn child is a person as just being a religious based opinion...

Sarah: Yeah, medical technology has come a long way since 1973.

Mark:  Science and technology have changed that from a religious based opinion into an observable fact. It is not debatable anymore. 

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: So, if the unborn child is a living human being - and only through mind-numbing stupidity could you either deny that or deny that there is a distinction between a person and human being.

Sarah: Oh, I have to tell you...  so on one of our Instagram posts just recently, a pro-choice person claimed that the unborn is not a baby, it is - brace yourself for this - (drum roll sound effect) "LIQUID." "It's just a blob of liquid."

(Sound Effect) Huuhh??

Mark: Oh, really?

Sarah: And they said, "go ask a doctor about that." Really??

Mark: That kind of stupidity you can't deal with. But what I'm talking about here, is somebody in the pro-life movement making this insane argument that this needs to be negotiated within the state legislatures. That would be a constitutional argument that is as flawed as Roe itself. But there is also a pragmatic issue to deal with here. If you were to send this back to the states, what we now know is that, a few states would outlaw all abortions. 

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: Texas might be one, Oklahoma, Alabama, Louisiana...

Sarah: ...possibly Georgia...

Mark: ...maybe...well no Georgia is...

Sarah: You absolutely never know.

Mark: But you never know who is going to do what. A few other states, California...

Sarah: ...New York...

Mark: ...Washington, New York, Colorado, these sort of ultra-leftist states would make abortion on demand legal right up to the moment of birth - and maybe even a little bit after birth.

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: So you would have this "patchwork quilt." It's tempting to say, on the surface, well that's at least a partial pro-life victory. The fact is, it's a zero pro-life victory. 

Sarah: No! Because, if there's a state near by, or even not near by, but if there is one single state in the union that allows for abortion, that option remains available. 

Mark: And there would be accommodations made, for interstate travel. 

Sarah: Oh Yeah! They would set up industries like vacation packages.

Mark: Yeah. Well, they've already kinda said...that this is what their "Post-Roe Strategy" would be. So what we need to remember is, interstate travel is totally unrestricted. So if a woman in Dallas is pregnant and she doesn't want to be...

Sarah: ...go to New Mexico...

Mark: ...go to New Mexico, go to Colorado - Colorado is the closest state to Texas that doesn't share a border with Texas. I think you'll have companies like Southwest Airlines who will come up with packages to these states. And these states then, that are pro-abortion, could set up little cottage industries in abortion.

Sarah: Well, they've done stuff like that before. There have been people who talked about a package where there was transportation to the state, they had the hotel room booked for you - you stayed in that room - and then you left when you were done. 

Mark: Yup. You would have people setting up - and they're already doing this by the way - getting multi-billionaires  like George Soros...

Sarah: ...Warren Buffett...

Mark: ...Warren Buffett to set up these funds that would provide travel to and from other states. 

Sarah: If you guys think that we're crazy and we're making this up, in November of just last year, the executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Virginia, her name is Tarina Keene...I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly. Anyway, she told Vice:

“Our vision is to make Virginia a safe haven for abortion care and access." 

She continues on to say that,

"In the event of the worst-case scenario—that Roe is overturned—we can put these safeguards in place to make sure people who live in surrounding states and even beyond have access to care.”

Mark: Right. So, they're already thinking this way. 

Sarah: Yeah. They're preparing for this.

Mark: They know the days of Roe vs. Wade are numbered - some of them are even saying that.

Sarah: What was that group that had the little fishing boat that they would go and provide abortions?

Mark: Oh, Women on Waves.

Sarah: Women on Waves! If that's not shady enough going to some random fishing boat in the middle of the ocean.

(Mark laughs)

Mark: Right! They'll do anything to kill a baby - that's the bottom line that we have to remember. And a state's rights ruling on abortion, pragmatically, is a disaster for the unborn. A state's rights ruling, since it doesn't protect every baby in every state - it doesn't protect any baby in any state.

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: And if you had a state's rights ruling by the Supreme Court today, this "patchwork quilt" thing would be kicked into place right now. It actually already exists.  Every baby in America would be just as vulnerable to abortion as they are right now. 

Sarah: And again, our goal is not just to protect babies in Texas, or Florida, or Georgia - our goal is to protect every baby in every state. 

Mark: Right. 

Sarah: So we can't just say it's a win if it's just outlawed in one state. Our goal is not just for one state. 

Mark: Yeah. And you know there's another thing too I think you need to understand, or everybody needs to understand...

Sarah: ...not just me...

(They  both laugh)

Mark: Yeah, not just you.  There's no guarantee that even in states that we think of as being pro-life, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, whoever, that those states would pass a total ban on abortion. 

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: There's no guarantee that that would actually happen - if they had that opportunity. 

Sarah: Well  and democrats are openly stating that they're trying to turn red states blue - that's been their goal. And Texas in this last election (senate) they've been pushing for that. 

Mark: And the scary thing is that, particularly in Texas, we have a major immigration problem here in Texas. The immigration problem though is not with people that come across the Rio Grande from Mexico - it's with people that come across the Red River from other states...

(Sarah laughs)

Mark: ...from New York,  California. We are being inundated  with people from these ultra-leftist states.

Sarah: Well see, if you don't live in Texas, you don't probably know about this or see this. But because of the financial and the living conditions in some of these democratic run cities and states - I mean their state's economies are in the negative badly -  and so they're leaving because things have gotten so bad and they're coming to states where it's the best -like Texas, right?

(Sound effect) "Yehaw! Texas!"

Sarah:  Financially we're doing pretty good and we have a lot of freedoms, but instead of saying, "ok, I'm here in a new state. I appreciate the reasons why it's so nice." No, they want to turn it into California and take all  the failed policies from over there and put them here and somehow cross their fingers and hope that things things turn out better. 

Mark: Well see, that's why I'm say the immigration problem in Texas is not the people coming across the Rio Grande - it's people coming across the Red River.

Sarah:  But there are conservatives in those states though. We can't just say just because you're from California...

Mark: No, there are... But it is changing the political landscape of Texas. And all you have to do to see that is look...and this is an embarrassment...this is a total embarrassment...  but just use Dallas County as an example. In the last three presidential elections, Dallas County voted for Hillary Clinton, and twice for Barack Obama. To suggest that that's Texans voting in Dallas County is preposterous. 

Sarah:  I think generally, when you get into a metropolitan area, they're going to naturally turn a little bit more blue, a little bit more liberal, because they don't have the same issues or challenges as people living in rural communities. If you take out all the stuff like identity politics and feminism, and other issues - take all that stuff aside - I think that's what's going to happen. 

Mark: Well you know, this person that wrote this article saying, the pro-life movement should be pushing for the overturn of Roe and sending it back to the states said...

Sarah:  ...yeah, the video... They were speaking in a video...yeah...

Mark: ...Right. She's got this kind of "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farms" attitude. 

Sarah:  It's naive. 

Mark: It's very naive. If this were to happen, how quickly do you think you could turn New York?

(Sarah laughs)

Mark: If ever?

Sarah:  If ever, it would be years and years and years and years...

Mark: And all those years that go by - millions of babies die. 

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: And I'm telling you right now, if this goes back to the states as a state's rights issue and then we have to fight 50 individual battles in all those states - this battle is going to go on from now on. You're great, great, great grandchildren will still be fighting this.

Sarah: Well, and what our side forgets, I think, about this issue is that this is exactly what the other side wants. 

Mark: Absolutely.

Sarah: This is the arena they're prepared to fight in and this is the one that they want. That's the reason why you're seeing all of these states who are codifying Roe into their state's constitutions... You know recently... course most people have heard about this unless they were living under a rock... the New York law that was just atrocious. 

Mark: Or Virginia.

Sarah: ...and the Virginia law. Illinois has passed their "Reproductive Health Act," which basically says that the fertilized egg, embryo, or fetus does not have independent rights. The Nevada Trust Women Act... all these states are codifying Roe into their state's constitutions. 

My mom and I were talking about this, and my dad too, and my dad is like, " why is happening? Abortion is legal through all nine months in the United States." And I said the reason why they're doing it is because they know that Roe is on a collision course. They know that Roe is going to be overturned and they're preparing for it. 

Mark: Right.

Sarah: And so if we fight the abortion battle on their ground and  every state for itself - then we're not playing to win. 

Mark: It's like you say, were getting lured to fight them on their turf. And it's a standard military strategy. 

Sarah: It's a trap.

Mark: Yeah, it's a trap. They're luring us in here. And it's like what you'll see sometimes if you study military history and two armies are about to collide and one army has the better ground. One... strategy that the other army will use is to engage them and then start retreating  - hoping that they'll follow them. And then they wait until they get into a battleground that's more advantageous to them and then they turn around and fight. And if you want to see a classic, best example of this...

Sarah: I think I know where you're going with this, but go for it.

Mark: ...is San Jacinto - where Texas won it's independence. Sam Houston lured Santa Anna into following him - chasing him- and he almost got to Louisiana. 

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: But when they crossed the San Jacinto battlefield, Sam Houston looked at it and said, "ok, we can win on that battlefield," and they turned around and attacked the army of Santa Anna. They won Texas independence in 18 minutes - that's how long it took.

Sarah: It's crazy to think in such a short time. Eighteen minutes! 

Mark: Eighteen minutes - that's how long the battle at San Jacinto lasted. But that was a classic example of that. And this is another reason why I've tried to say to you, and to Sheila, and everybody else I can think of that's your age how important it is to study history. 

Sarah: Yeah, I'm a huge history buff.  I love American, especially early American history. And another good example of what we're talking about is early American history. You know the British military force was one of the best at it's time.

Mark: Exponentially more powerful than the Americans. 

Sarah: Yeah, the Americans were a rag-tag group of farmers and individual people who had muskets in their houses. They realized that they could not fight battles using British military tactics because it wasn't going to work. They were not skilled enough, they were not supplied enough, and they were not going to have the upper ground. So they had to resort to guerilla  warfare tactics. They used the land and the territory to their advantage - and that's the only way they had advantages in a lot of battles. 

Mark: Right. Well again, I don't think there's a better example of this anywhere on earth than the battle of San Jacinto. 

(Sarah laughs)

(Mark laughs)

Sarah: We're going to rock, paper, scissors this because I'm going to say the American Revolution. 

Mark: No.

Sarah: "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes."

Mark: But what Sam Houston did to Santa Anna, the pro-aborts are trying to do to us right now. 

Sarah: Yeah, they're trying to lure us into this trap.

Mark: Now we have national pro-life leaders saying that what we ought to do is follow them onto that battlefield. This is the biggest crock of nonsense  I've ever heard. And this is what I was talking about when we did our intro show

Sarah: This is why we have to be educated on these issues.

Mark: We have to understand... First we have to understand that this is a war that we're in and standard battlefield, wartime philosophies apply. You can like them, you can not like them,  but they apply.

Sarah: Well, I like to compare this to a ultimate high-stakes game of poker.  The buy in is blood and money - that's what is at stake here. The other side is playing to win. 

Mark: Yeah.

Sarah: They're not playing here for fun, they're playing to win.  And if our attitude is that we're at the table only to play hoping we don't lose our shorts - then we're never going to win. Our strategy has to be that we're here to win.

Mark: Yup, and we can't engage them in this battle that's going to take at least a hundred years to win - if we ever won it. 

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: If you think you can turn New York and California around in a hundred years,  good luck! We haven't turned them around in the last fifty. They're as radically pro-abortion today as they were 50 years ago. They're not going to change. That means, again, a state's rights ruling on abortion leaves every baby in America as vulnerable  to abortion as they are right now.

Sarah: And you can still support state's rights for a lot of issues, there is no problem with that. It's just that personhood and the constitutional rights of the individual is not one of them. 

Mark: Right. That's right.

Sarah: I want to stress to people that have listened to this episode - share this with everyone you know. 

Mark: Absolutely!

Sarah: This is so important. And if you hear people saying stuff like, "oh Roe should go to the states," talk to them about it. Explain to them why (it can't be). Send them to this episode. If you hear pro-life leaders saying this, private message them or pull them over in private and talk to them about this. You don't have to shame them or be mean or aggressive but we have to get this point out; because if we don't, we are going to fall for the ploy and we are going to be in a worse situation. 

Mark: We're going to follow the enemy onto the battlefield of their choosing...

Sarah: ...of their choosing, giving them the higher ground. And then we are royally screwed. 

Mark: Just like Santa Anna did at San Jacinto.

(They  both laugh)

Sarah: We get it. You're a Texan. You love Texas history.

Mark: He let Sam Houston lure him onto that San Jacinto battlefield, because Sam Houston knew that the way it was laid out - that's where they could win. Remember something too, you talk about the British military being so powerful at the time of the American Revolution...

Sarah: yeah.

Mark: ...at the time of the Texas Revolution, Mexico had one of the most powerful armies on earth. 

Sarah: Yeah they did.

Mark: Bar none. Santa Anna was called the Napoleon of the west. 

Sarah: He really was. He revolutionized their military, if I remember correctly. 

Mark: Right. People have to remember something, Sam Houston had no soldiers. They had no uniforms. These guys had to bring their own guns...And when they would catch up with Sam Houston....he had a very rag-tag bunch of people. They started training them in the next five minutes because they had nothing. It's often been called the greatest battle in history that was fought without soldiers, because Sam Houston didn't have any soldiers. 

But anyway, we can't allow the pro-aborts to lure us onto the battlefield of their choosing. And that's what is happening when you have these pro-life leaders coming out here and saying, "let's push for a state's rights ruling so we can fight these individual battles. It's nonsense.

Sarah: And the other side is scared right now. Uh...In a New York Times article called, 'The Time Is Now’: States Are Rushing to Restrict Abortion, or to Protect It, there's a lawyer quoted in there, B. Jessie Hill, who said:

“I genuinely think that the future of Roe is the most precarious it has ever been since 1973.”

Mark: Right. Well, you've got raging pro-aborts, you've got former Supreme Court justices, Sandra Day O'Connor, saying it's on a collision course with itself - it can't survive.

Sarah: It's funny that you mention that, because I've told that to people online. They're like, "no!" You give them the quotes and they're like, "oh!"

Mark: Right. Yup. Anyway, we're gonna propose next week...

Sarah: ...a solution!

Mark: ...a solution to this...

Sarah: ...because unlike politicians out there, we don't just tell you what the problems are - we provide solutions to them.

Mark: ...we're gonna throw one out next week that's going to be pretty radical and it's going to require a lot of courage. But we're going to have to have people of courage and character to win this battle. Not the kind of politicians that the Republican Party typically furnishes to us - the "Frilled-Neck Republicans" - as we call them.

(They  both laugh)

Mark: But anyway, I want to encourage people to, like you said a moment ago, circulate this show everywhere that you possibly can. 

Sarah: Yeah, it's important that we get this out because so many people just do not understand.

Mark: And then have yourself ready to listen to the next week's show. And we're going to lay out, what I think, is a pretty radical solution to this. 

Sarah: This is how we make the change - one person at a time!

Mark: Right. We'll see you next week!

Sarah: We'll see you next week guys!

(Theme Music Plays)